The Marketing Lawcast
Driving Success for Lawyers in Estate Planning, Elder Law and Special Needs
A growth acceleration podcast for attorneys to scale their firms to seven figures and more ... with host James Campbell, Chief Growth Officer at Integrity Marketing Solutions. Featuring interviews with leading legal professionals, financial and growth mindset experts, and providing marketing tips and hacks to grow your law firm, drive leads and close more business at premium fees.
The Marketing Lawcast
Why Your Marketing Isn’t Getting You Hired
Your marketing isn’t broken—your buyers changed. We dig into why steady SEO and consistent content can still produce wobbly pipelines for estate planning and elder law firms, and how AI-driven search now compresses discovery into a handful of rapid-fire micro-judgments. Before anyone clicks your link, they see summaries, reviews, and a tight shortlist. The real game isn’t “be seen” anymore; it’s “be chosen.”
We share the concept of selection signals—clear cues that lower perceived risk and help prospects feel safe choosing you. Instead of blending into a sea of competent firms, learn to communicate who you’re for, what you believe, and how you think. We walk through practical ways to turn generic education into guidance: lead with the client’s lived problem, frame tradeoffs, use stories that show judgment, and replace commodity FAQs with questions that reflect stakes and consequences. You’ll hear examples that reframe “wills vs trusts” into the real issues—caregiver stress, probate delays, sibling conflict, and protecting a spouse during long-term care.
We also cover the tools that humanize your expertise: webinars that shift from “five documents” to decision frameworks, empathetic FAQs that signal how you guide clients, and proof assets like reviews that highlight outcomes and calm. The goal is to move from activity to clarity and from attention to decision—so when AI shortlists you, your message earns the yes. If your lead flow feels unpredictable or your best clients arrive less often, this is your roadmap to becoming the safest, easiest choice.
If this resonates, book a strategy call at imsrocks.com, subscribe for future episodes, and share this with a colleague who’s still chasing traffic. What’s one selection signal you’ll add to your marketing this week?
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Hey everyone, welcome back to the Marketing Lawcast. I'm Jennifer Goddard, CEO of Integrity Marketing Solutions. And today I'm joined by James Campbell, our lead strategist and chief sales officer. We're going to unpack a topic that so many of you are asking about. Why your marketing isn't getting you hired. Let's jump in. If you are an estate planning or elder law firm and your marketing feels harder today, even though nothing looks obviously broken, this is an episode for you.
SPEAKER_01:We're having this conversation a lot right now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, firms are always telling us our SEO looks fine, our rankings are stable, we're still publishing content. And yet the flow of appointments and initial consultations is just not very predictable. The quality of the leads they're getting is uneven. So it's really easy to feel like you're just being overlooked online.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think that's the biggest frustration that I hear on the sales side of it is they're feel like they're being overlooked, that the leads that come through aren't necessarily the best qualified. And but the reports, when you look at their SEO, it's not screaming, hey, here's a big obvious problem.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's something that we do with every prospect that comes through, is we run a report to see if we can like pinpoint where the problem is. And sometimes you can. Sometimes their SEO just really hasn't even been done. And they really are invisible online. But what we're seeing more and more is that there's no like glaring problem. So when they come to us and they say, I just don't know what's going on, they're not crazy. Their marketing isn't actually failing. It's just that things have changed in the marketplace. The way that people discover firms and more importantly, how they decide which one they're going to choose has changed.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Jennifer, I think that's probably the key distinction is to how people are making that choice between one attorney or another, or getting documents and seeing it in that light, or getting a consultation and help.
SPEAKER_00:Right. You know, when you do a search online and you try to find, you know, the best estate planning attorney in your area, you're going to get like five, you know, at least, you know, five to look at. And so how people are choosing you is not necessarily a visibility problem. It's a selection issue. And that's the core issue that we're going to unpack today in this episode.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, great. I think part of why this is so, I don't know what you want to say, unsettling, is that for a long time the rules for SEO were pretty straightforward. If you had keywords, you had content, you had a Google business profile, that sort of covered you.
SPEAKER_00:Right. You know, if you, if you were doing your SEO right and you were showing up, you know, somewhere on the Map Pack, somewhere on page one of Google, then you had it under control and your phone would ring.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Visibility and demand were uh basically the same thing. So, you know, if you were the top of the pack, if you were making an effort on that side of things, you were the person at the top of the hill getting all the clients.
SPEAKER_00:Right. We used to even call it it's kind of a king of the hill game. You know, there's only so many people, so many firms that can be on Google's page one. And so if you were there, you had it made. So, you know, firms would build their entire marketing mindset around that assumption that if I could dominate local search, rankings would equal qualified phone calls. If I could get traffic to my website, then my law firm would grow. More content would mean I had more opportunities. And to be fair, that worked for a long time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was. That was like the one of the core things that we would work on, which is why things sort of feel uncertain right now. The instinct is to sort of assume, well, something's broken.
SPEAKER_00:Right. You people think, you know, did Google change something? Is is is SEO dead or is it dying? Do we need to do more SEO? But most of the time, none of that is actually the problem. The real issue is that firms are using an old mental mindset to interpret new buyer behavior.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a great insight. And let's talk about what actually changed without getting too super technical here.
SPEAKER_00:Well, if you think about the old days, like six months ago, discovery was fairly linear. People would search, they would click around, compare a few sites, and then they would call you.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And it's gotten a lot shorter. Now all of that is being compressed, is probably a good word.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So people go online and they see AI summaries now. They see the map pack, they see your reviews. Reputation signals are seen right away. So they're often presented with a short list before they ever visit your website.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that's the big thing that people underestimate is the decision making happens before they actually click on your ad or your link. They're making that decision preemptively.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. You know, AI has really changed the environment. It doesn't replace your marketing, but it's made a big change in where the decisions get made. By the time someone lands on your site, oftentimes they're not really in research mode anymore. They're in decision mode. So we talk about, you know, top of the funnel, mid-funnel, bottom of the funnel. And the bottom of the funnel is where those decisions are made. And sometimes that's where your website falls. We used to think it was always at the top of the funnel, but now, even more often, it's at the bottom of the funnel.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a great point. When that what that means is that your marketing is now designed to attract attention, and that's that's just not enough. You can't just be the shiny object. Folks are going through these AI platforms, Jennifer, and they're doing their own research. A lot of times they're self-diagnosing when it comes to estate planning. And so they're coming in with a different mindset, and the attorney has to recognize that as part of the decision-making process.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And it's really important to understand that getting attention and leading someone to a decision, those are two different jobs. Most firms are still only optimizing to get attention. And I want to be, you know, very clear here. We talk about attention, visibility. I don't want to downplay how important that is, because it's like table stakes. If you don't have the visibility, if you're not getting the attention, then you're not in the game. But what we're saying is while it is necessary, it's no longer sufficient.
SPEAKER_01:Great distinction. And I think that's where frustration shows up because firms are spending money on SEO. They are spending money with some other some agency or somebody off of upwork that they're trying to have them increase their visibility while not addressing the other side of that, which is optimizing for the decision.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. When we talk to firms that come to us and they're frustrated, they look at their reports, we look at their reports, and they say, you know, we're visible. So why aren't we getting hired? Why aren't we getting the right clients who are ready to hire us like we used to? So here's the uncomfortable truth about the marketplace today. Most of the firms that we see that come to us, they're not invisible online, but they're interchangeable.
SPEAKER_01:Right. From the prospect's perspective, they're seeing multiple firms that all look competent, all look professional, and all look good enough.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. And when everything looks similar, people hesitate.
SPEAKER_01:That's great because they they slow down the process. That changes their behavior. Nobody stands out saying, Oh, thank God I found this person.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. And so instead of making a confident choice, prospects default to things like price, convenience, familiarity. And that's when your real marketing really starts to feel unpredictable. Not because it's ineffective, but because it's no longer influencing the moment of choice.
SPEAKER_01:I love that because I talk about the crescendo. If you think about classical music, there's this crescendo or the the music peaks, right? But we need to be available when that emotion peaks. We need to know what that what's that crescendo moment for these firms. So if visibility, Jennifer, isn't the bottleneck, what actually is?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it really comes down to this it's the selection signals. These are the signals that reduce the level of perceived risk for the prospect. They answer questions like who feels the safest? Who understands my situation? Who do I trust not to mess this up?
SPEAKER_01:Right. And and those signals don't come from just doing more content or doing more SEO or doing more marketing.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. They come from being more clear. Clear about who you are for, clear about what you believe, clear about how you think, not just what you do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's why firms that are still consistently in demand aren't just louder than everyone else.
SPEAKER_00:Right. They're just easier to choose. Their marketing communicates judgment, not just information. And this is where firms get tripped up because activity feels really productive. But more content without that clarity, without those selection signals, it's just more noise. More traffic to your website, more people visiting your website. If your website doesn't differentiate you, doesn't give those selection signals, it can actually just increase their hesitation.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Increasing those questions like how much do you charge for a trust and that sort of a thing. A lot of times we think about marketing, we think about, well, I have to be consistent. There's got to be activity. And sometimes just having things happen creates this level of comfort. Like, well, I'm I am posting to my blog every week, or I am sending out a newsletter every month. And so that activity makes you feel like you have a level of comfort with your marketing. Well, it's it's got to work eventually.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I'm I'm doing all the things, so it must be working. But judgment is what actually converts.
SPEAKER_01:That's a great point. So where's Jennifer? What's the reframe firms should be making here? What's the change they should be thinking about?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it begins with what you should stop asking. So stop asking, how do I get more traffic? And start asking, why should someone choose us once they find us? That single question changes everything.
SPEAKER_01:Right. It's going to change what you talk about in your videos. It's going to change the content that you post to your blog, what you post onto social media, how you frame your emails.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, it's it's how your authority is demonstrated or how success is measured. And most importantly, you need to replace anxiety with intention because this environment doesn't require you to be panicked. It requires you to interpret what's going on.
SPEAKER_01:Jennifer, one of the things that I want to address and just bring up is I have a client, one in Minnesota, actually, and one of the things he talks about a lot is that how great it is to have the clients come through where they're they uh they recognize that what the firm does is not a commodity. The the the vast majority of clients that are reaching out are asking about a problem. There's they're basically saying, can you help me with this specific thing? What we do for this attorney is create his content just as we talked about, on why the firm should be chosen over somebody else. And not necessarily it's not features and benefits, right? It's that we've anticipated why they're there. This law firm knows exactly what their clients are going through and they go to the core issues in their marketing, not just the symptoms.
SPEAKER_00:Now, is this client, do they run a webinar?
SPEAKER_01:They do.
SPEAKER_00:I was gonna say that's one of the key ways that you can start to reframe the conversation so that people do understand what you do. They understand your judgment, you start to become very human, very approachable. So a webinar is a great tool to start to answer some of these questions about are you safe? Or can I trust you that you're not gonna mess this up? Can do I kind of pre-know you. There are a lot of other things, you know, in addition to a webinar, because you know, not every single prospect is gonna watch your webinar. So there are other things that you can do in your marketing that will help bring that credibility and that sense of authority. And James, can you just kind of name a few of those things that some of our clients have really leveraged? Right.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think a lot of times when people think about the webinar or their SEO or their ads that they run on Facebook or on Google, the the tendency, like the the natural way that we that attorneys think is I've got to provide some education. If I can just provide value, if I can show value. And so we're gonna lead with this estate planning 101, or the five things that you know you should have, five documents every every person should have in their estate plan. We go with things like that when what we should be saying instead is five ways to relieve yourself from the stress of caring for an aging parent.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's okay. Something like that. Well, the what we're trying to do is not just stand out, well, this person knows about elder law, but this person knows exactly what I'm going through. And because this person knows exactly what I'm going through, obviously they know the solution to this as well. So it's leading with the issue and just really understanding what your clients are going through.
SPEAKER_00:So one of the great things that you can do in any kind of a sales situation is ask better questions. So in your content, you can create your content around asking better questions. So, like you do an FAQ, frequently asked questions at the end of one of your blog articles, for example, just an example. The quality of those questions that you would include can can demonstrate your understanding and your and your empathy and your judgment.
SPEAKER_01:Correct. So instead of putting in your FAQs, what's the difference between a will and a trust? Which we all want to put that out there because why we think that people are curious about it.
SPEAKER_00:And then also for your S you're for your SEO, right? You're gonna do more SEO.
SPEAKER_01:Right, exactly. So we're gonna frame those types of questions out to our prospects. Well, what's that do? It gets the prospect thinking about do I really want to purchase one of those wills or do I want to get the trust? Do I want the blue one or do I want the red one? And what do you charge for the blue one or the red one? It creates that type of a mindset with the prospect. So if we can maybe say why you would want a trust, for example, and and reverse engineer that a little bit about, okay, well, what are people why would people want to avoid probate or why would they want to trust?
SPEAKER_00:Right, particularly if you're in a state where probate is a big deal.
SPEAKER_01:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:You might you might frame your questions around how do I avoid the XYZ, the long, the length of probate, the hassle of probate, the expense of probate. And then you bring in, well, this is where a revocable living trust can help you. So you frame, you ask better questions. It's part of your content. And that helps you with your AI optimization as well.
SPEAKER_01:I think it helps with just buying patterns of prospects today, given all the tools that are available. Folks want answers to these emotionally driven questions that they can't get from YouTube, that they can't that they can't just download from Chat GPT. They want somebody to guide them through some of the toughest decisions. They don't want to make those in a vacuum or just with some AI agent. So it's taking our content, taking our marketing strategies, and focusing it around the reasons why people are looking for an attorney to begin with. At the end of the day, they're not looking for the cheapest trust.
SPEAKER_00:Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:That's not what's happening.
SPEAKER_00:And so what we're kind of trying to bring about with today's episode is that if you think that your marketing seems harder, if it seems like your lead flow is kind of up and down and the quality of the leads is inconsistent, the answer is probably not to just do more of what you've been doing. It's really learning how consumer behavior has changed and what you need to do to change your approach. So if this conversation resonates with you and you're trying to figure out how this shift applies to your firm, your next best step is to talk with someone on our strategy team.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that, Jennifer. We would be glad to help get clarity on where you're at now, what your messaging looks like, maybe what some of your numbers have been, and then compare that to what we're doing for our clients and see, you know, where do we have room for improvement here? Where can we help make some adjustments to bridge that gap?
SPEAKER_00:So the easiest thing to do to get in touch with somebody on our team is just go to our website, www.imsrocks.com, and you'll find a place where you can book a call or you can, you know, learn some more information, attend one of our own webinars. We'd love to see you there.
SPEAKER_01:All right, great episode, Jennifer. Thanks a lot for today.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. And that's it for today's episode of the Marketing Lawcast. If you want help building marketing you can actually trust, choose Integrity Marketing Solutions. We have been serving estate planning and elder law firms since 1995. You can learn more at www.imsrocks.com.
