Announcer: 0:00

You're about to tap into the digital marketing strategies that separate thriving law firms from the ones struggling to keep up. Join James Campbell as we break down the roadblocks holding your practice back and reveal the insider tactics attorneys are using to scale past seven figures. From cutting-edge digital marketing tips to exclusive interviews with industry leaders, we're giving you the playbook to attract higher quality clients, dominate your market and build a firm that runs like a growth machine. Your next breakthrough starts now. This is the Marketing Law Cast.

James Campbell: 0:32

Hello and welcome. Today on the Marketing Law Cast, we're spotlighting an attorney who is rewriting the script on estate planning. Meredith Williamson is the founder of NW Estate Law, serving Oregon and Washington. With a rare blend of legal expertise, business savvy and a deeply human compassion. With a background in psychology, a passion for advocacy and years spent both in litigation and elder care, meredith brings something powerful to the table an approach to law that centers on a client's voice, their comfort and their peace of mind. Whether she's helping families navigate long-term care, securing their legacy through estate planning or just planning for life's unknowns, meredith does more than just draft documents. She builds trust with each client.

James Campbell: 1:17

In this episode, we'll explore how Meredith turned her vision for a more client-centered firm into reality and how she scaled her practice with strategic marketing support and what she wishes every estate planning attorney knew about building a firm that truly connects with clients. If you're an attorney looking to grow your practice with purpose, or someone who just believes legal services should feel personal and professional guys, this conversation is for you. Stick around, you're going to love this. All right, meredith, let's start with your firm and how you started your firm. So NW Estate Plan or estate law what sort of inspired you to start your practice and how did you land into estate and elder law specifically?

Meredith Williamson: 2:00

So it was a bit of a windy road right getting here. I did not enter law school intending to do estate planning. In fact, I wanted to work with kids in the foster care system, getting out, you know, getting your first job. I worked for a firm that I loved, but it was litigation, and then I did that for about eight years in California, decided to move back home. During that time worked for a family company that worked in the elder care field and I absolutely fell in love with these conversations that I would have with people in long-term care settings. So after doing that for a number of years as well because, again, I just fell in love with it, even though it was not really legal I decided to combine my love for the law and my love for this population and form Northwest Estate Law. I saw how not having a good plan really impacted people, especially as they were aging. So I felt like this unique blend of kind of in the trenches and then legal was a good combination and I love it.

James Campbell: 3:07

I love that you sort of have that heart for people and I think that's one of the things I want to get across to folks is that when clients or potential clients visit your site, a lot of your brand is sort of built around warmth and empathy and sort of this like deep personal connection with clients. And a lot of estate attorneys can kind of go more tax and numbers side and they focus more on, like the documents and the legal side, which I know you have that expertise. But why is that so important in your legal practice, this personal connection?

Meredith Williamson: 3:39

I mean I think for the most part that's because that's who I am, right. So in my marketing I need to convey my approach to all of this and I truly believe that when working with people, you know they're coming to estate planning attorneys with some family secrets. Perhaps they're coming to elder law with some hurt, potentially like looking at long-term care maybe we haven't planned. So when people come they're coming generally with a sense of trepidation to some degree. Right, we're on somebody's task list, to-do list for years and years before they call an estate planning attorney.

Meredith Williamson: 4:18

So when they come in it's really conversational for me, right. I want to get to know the person. I want to get to know what, what it is that's driving their need for estate planning. Sometimes it is just about the numbers, but, but often it's not. So I want my marketing to convey sort of my approach to all of this and, to be honest, my clients are just as big as a blessing to me, as I feel like we are an advocate to them, right, like just being a part of somebody's story or being able to share in. This is amazing. It's the best part of this job.

James Campbell: 4:53

I love that and I think it's one thing that estate planning attorneys need to realize is that your clients they want more than just the legal document. They're looking for somebody that they can trust, and Meredith has done a great job in recognizing that. That is a big part of why people end up hiring her and to lean into that with the marketing. So I think that's important for attorneys to take into account is that it's more than just your expertise in the document drafting. Meredith, you offer services in Oregon and Washington and even accommodate clients over Zoom and you do home visits. I've noticed that you really are accommodating to your clients and trying to be able to serve a broad market there. Can you talk about the kind of clients you serve and the challenges they typically face when they come to you?

Meredith Williamson: 5:47

I mean. So when I started Northwest Estate Law again, it really had more of an elder focus, right. So my average age of client was probably post-retirement. With COVID, that changed, right. My referral sources changed. I used to be primarily certain people would refer to me financial advisors, people in the long-term care setting. With COVID, people were not really meeting with those people as often and more people were going online. So I focused a little bit, you know, obviously keeping those relationships going but also looking online and with that the type of person like my average person is not average anymore, right. Like it's all ages Somebody from 18 to 118 is kind of who I serve.

Meredith Williamson: 6:38

Usually people when they find me, they find me on the website or they're referred to me from from a referral source. It's it's because they're wanting that connection right With somebody, and so when I get feedback, um, it's really that connection that they're looking for. So maybe not the average person as far as what their needs are, but what, how they're wanting. The approach is definitely, definitely typical, right. Somebody who wants more of a hands-on. I'm definitely not that stuffy like law firm, right. So not everybody wants somebody like me. So those that find me usually are happy.

James Campbell: 7:15

Yeah, I love that. I think that that's the authenticity, is one of the things that's going to bring the clients that want that right, and so if that's who you are in your personality, it needs to be displayed A lot of the clients that you serve. If you were to sort of break it down, what are the biggest challenges that your clients face that you feel like you help them solve, Like on a day-to-day? What's some of the biggest challenges that you're helping clients with?

Meredith Williamson: 7:43

So I mean, from estate planning to elder law, right, it's, either people are coming with me and they're wanting to plan, and sometimes it's just a simple sort of like I just want to leave it to my kids. Other times we're looking at really protecting certain heirs or, you know, helping people figure out who is going to act in these key roles. Not everybody has somebody that is top of mind for a power of attorney or a healthcare representative. Then, on the other side of stuff, if people haven't planned yet, you know I'm there as well. So guardianships and conservatorships, probate sort of, we kind of take it start to finish.

Meredith Williamson: 8:26

I think one of the biggest barriers for people is just is is is being able to either fit it in their schedule if they're a young family, or just being able to get to an attorney's office if they're in long-term care or homebound. So part of my approach with having the two offices and the the home visits is really to, to, to take away some of those barriers of entry. Right, we need to be able to serve people and sometimes that's a matter of juggling my schedule. It's, you know, hiring additional staff to help support all of those goals. Yeah, yeah, just getting rid of any barrier to help somebody. You know zoom was a great way to for people that can't yeah, so just being able to meet people where they are.

James Campbell: 9:14

I think that that's an important thing. A lot of attorneys, I think, make the mistake of sort of telling people this is just the way it is, we're only going to do things this way, and being very strict in their approach or their process. A lot of attorneys fall into this idea that my process is so perfect, I can't have anybody screw that up, and that can be a deterrent to some degree. I think it's good to have processes in place so you can have efficiencies and better serve people, but to also keep in mind the way that Meredith has in her practice, how can we accommodate the people that we really intend to serve and help?

James Campbell: 9:55

And I think that's a big distinction between what maybe is a traditional law firm and one like yours, meredith, kind of transitioning a little bit. You've worked in litigation, you've done in-house counsel and you even co-owned a business before starting this one, so you've had some history here. What are some of the biggest lessons you brought from those experiences to the law firm? For those attorneys that are in the business of growing their law firm maybe they haven't been in a business outside of a law firm what lessons can you have you brought that you can sort of help guide them a little bit.

Meredith Williamson: 10:29

Yeah, I mean, I think one thing is with a small business right which which any small law firm is is you're not isolated. You need to pull in. Pull in either just community, whether it's it's you know, friends and family, or working with other lawyers like it doesn't need to be, especially in this industry. It doesn't need to be ultra competitive, because when we're working together, when you can call a colleague and ask a question or be there for another colleague that has a question, being able to grow that and grow the community around, all of this is really really helpful. Specifically for estate planning.

Meredith Williamson: 11:10

You know, one of the great things that my prior business helped me learn to do was marketing. Like, I am not an extrovert at all, so marketing was really challenging for me. That was, you know, to grow a business a lot of times it requires marketing, it requires going outside of your comfort zone, being able to take down time if you're an introvert, after that is vital, but really, you know and being flexible, right. So I think, again, going back to the pandemic, like I was able to pivot pretty quickly because I was always a little bit flexible, right, I was always meeting people in their homes or trying new processes out, so not getting stuck in a rut. And, again, that is really leveraging your community right, whether it's a legal community or marketing community or just friends and family, but not treating this like it's all or nothing.

Meredith Williamson: 12:09

I grew up with two parents who were entrepreneurs and their small businesses was like having a sibling right, Because it takes so much of your time and so much of your energy and you put so much of your heart into it that it's really like raising this other child and not taking things super personally. Right, it's really really hard. So, again, just leveraging that community. Like, if you're having a bad day, going back to a sweet note that a client wrote you, right, that's vital. That's something my mom taught me. Just have a stack of them and really staying kind of positive through all of it right, that's the challenge and, I think, the most important part, because the better mindset you are through the day, like, the better you're going to serve the people that come in the office, the better you're going to work with your staff. That helps support your vision and mission.

James Campbell: 13:03

Yeah, I love that so much because I think that when you step outside of your comfort zone and you realize you don't have to live in this term of this realm of isolation, where it's you against the world, you can sort of leverage the community and be part of the growth that happens not just within your law firm but in the community at large. If you're engaging around those things, you're going to be part of that and sort of the rising tides floats all boats mentality. So, meredith, a lot of the folks that listen to the Marketing Law Cast are newer attorneys. They're folks that are looking to either get into estate planning or they're trying to start their law practice, or they're stuck in a rut and they're trying to get to that next level. For those people that are maybe launching out on their own or trying to revitalize their firm, what's one piece of advice you wish that you could give them that you wish somebody would have given you when you were going through this?

Meredith Williamson: 13:59

That is a good question. One piece of advice, other than the building of the community. You know, I personally am a big goal oriented person, so I set out goals for the year, I set out goals for six months, and then I evaluate, kind of each month, like where we are at and where things might be growing awry With that, like the goal can't be the end, all be all right If it's financial. I think, really getting to the why of your business, which I love, right, like why do I do this? Why are you wanting to start this particular business? Why are you wanting to expand, maybe your reach? Like is it financial only? Is it because you love people? Is it you know? Like what is it? And then work that helps, then create or frame, I guess, the goals.

Meredith Williamson: 14:59

I think for me, though, the biggest lesson is like not taking everything personally right, like not every client is for you, not every case, not every case is is the one that you're intended to help with. But if you're starting to get no's or negative feedback, like taking that in not as like hurt necessarily, even though it hurts when somebody is not fully satisfied, right, we all want to make everybody happy, um, but but taking it and turning it into a lesson like where could I have done better in this or where, why did that client not pick me? You know? Like, what am I doing? Sort of that I can improve on. So rather than taking everything and needing like constant good feedback because not everything right, sometimes people just don't like me, that's fine, and I hope they do, and I want them to and I want to be able to help everybody.

Meredith Williamson: 15:51

But but really kind of taking any setback and and turning it into a lesson of where you could grow and really self-analyzing the business and you with regard to that, that would have been the best, because every any hint of negativity early on, even still, I struggle with it. Like you know, it's hard because you put again so much of yourself into these businesses and you want it to succeed and you want to help people. But really, yeah, turning everything has a positive right, every negative has a positive. So what can we do to improve and instead of like thinking it's all you know, just harm, right, take it, turn it around.

James Campbell: 16:32

Yeah, I think that that kind of comes down to mindset.

Meredith Williamson: 16:37

And.

James Campbell: 16:37

I talked to my children about this.

James Campbell: 16:40

I think it's an important little lesson here is that we are in control of what we believe.

James Campbell: 16:45

We are in control of what we believe and we have an outlook of limitations that leads to certain judgments about what's possible and what we believe about people, and then that leads to actions like how we behave, the words we say, the things we're willing to do and not willing to do. And if we have an outlook of opportunity, even if we have something negative happen, like you just mentioned, we can look at that and say, okay, what can I glean from this to advance, what can I take away from this to help myself move forward or improve? And that's an outlook of opportunity. That's just looking for ways to continually get better, and that's all mindset stuff. So for those of you that are working on growing your practice and running up against some difficult times or difficult issues, good right, like use that as a way to as a springboard into something that's better. On that same sort of note, shifting gears just a little bit to your experience working with IMS what kind of first led you to seek out help with marketing?

Meredith Williamson: 17:50

So I I knew I, prior to that, I had built everything myself which I kind of loved. Right, it was the building of my website, was was giving me um, just instead of working with client. It was like uh, I'm missing the word but I was really trying to creativity right, Like I really enjoy being creative and so. But I realized with that, like my time is not, I'm billing at a certain rate and when I'm not, billing.

Meredith Williamson: 18:22

I am and I'm doing something more creative and maybe I'm not doing the best job at it. Maybe it's time to hand those reins over. I don't need to be in control of everything. So, and I knew that, in order to grow, I would need a little bit of help. Right, I'd need a little catalyst, and so I researched a couple of companies. I really liked sort of the mission again behind what IMS. You know, the marketing that you guys had. Your approach with me wasn't aggressive, it wasn't, you know, it was just it was helpful. And I knew that you guys would be able to not only help me with my website, but a few other pieces that I knew I needed some assistance with. And sure enough, like the timing of it, like what you guys created for me was fantastic and it was, there was. Also I was bringing on additional staff. So I again I knew that I couldn't grow as much as I needed to grow, or I wanted to grow, if I was doing everything in-house with regard to marketing. So that was why I reached out.

James Campbell: 19:27

Yeah, and you've done a great job growing the firm and you've added staff and you've added revenue and we've kind of been aside you the firm and you've added staff and you've added revenue and we've kind of been aside you to see that growth. In fact, it's one of the reasons that we booked this podcast was just understanding where you started and where you're at now and where you continue to go. You mentioned having goals and it's not just revenue but it's baking in the lifestyle, which bringing some of that support staff on it helps support that lifestyle. But you have to have the clients there. We try to support you in that. Can you kind of describe what the support has looked like? What's it been like working with IMS from the strategy and support side of things as you manage the growth of your firm?

Meredith Williamson: 20:11

Absolutely so again, because you guys have been here, it's for me, the community again of it has actually been really beneficial.

Meredith Williamson: 20:19

Just on the calls, where we talk about, like, the good things that have happened right To me, starting my week with that more than anything, which seems so silly and it's so minor, but just sharing sharing again as a small business owner like sometimes it is just you and and having the ability to share with other people and hear other people's wins has been fantastic.

Meredith Williamson: 20:46

Um, strategy wise, just you know, confirming sort of things that that I know that I need assistance with or kind of where the market is going, has also been really, really helpful for me with working with you guys On the marketing end of it too, like the website and you know I'm launching into more podcasts this year and I'm really excited about that and so my first reach out was really to you guys like how, what do you have, how do you, how can you support me in this? Because I know you're helping other people with it too. I think that's going to be a really great way to share sort of my not only like my knowledge and what I've gained in this to help a broader set of people in addition to the marketing arm of it, right, so that's my next with you guys. I'm really excited about that.

James Campbell: 21:41

Yeah, I am too. I think you have a great voice and a great approach to how you take on estate planning, and that's what I love about working with clients who have a passion for what they do as a marketer. That's what we can lean into and leverage and help bring in the folks that are going to connect the most. If you could kind of lay out for us what have been the biggest outcomes that you've achieved, or results that you could sort of elaborate on, what's the biggest thing that you've noticed since hiring IMS, what things have improved the most in your opinion?

Meredith Williamson: 22:18

Yeah, so for one, just, the number of calls has drastically increased, right, because, again, more and more people were going online, but my website was so limited in the information that it provided. So, just call volume, first and foremost, has probably doubled, at least since working with you guys and with that, the sale. You know, any business requires some level of sales, right? So, as lawyers, we have sales and you have a really like your sales training I don't even know if that's what you call it. I think it is because that's what it is right, because we need to be able to explain to people why they need certain services or help them understand why we might be a good fit, and all of your education around that has been phenomenal, been so good.

Meredith Williamson: 23:19

Some of it I knew from my marketing world, but I don't think most lawyers, you know most of us, don't have a business degree behind us. Most of us have not run small businesses before, and so there's things that don't come naturally to lawyers necessarily, because we're all about the results, right, usually like we want the client to be satisfied with this will that we just drafted, but we have to get to the point where we're creating that will for them. We have to get to the point where they understand the benefits of the trust or the will or working with us, and your support around that has been vital. I think it's been really good. And then allowing my staff to kind of glean from that as well, I think that anybody starting out that doesn't have a business degree or hasn't run a business before uh, is so good right. Such good information and the approach is so good. You guys are so helpful.

James Campbell: 24:23

Well, I love that. Thank you for saying that, because I think that that's one of the things that I really strive for within our clients practice is to create a sales culture, and a lot of times, sales has the idea of it's a four-letter word, but it's not but a sales culture, and it's not around sort of convincing people to buy the things or manipulating them into some sort of way and to trick them into buying a trust. No, no, no, no, no. It's just about getting clarity from the prospect on what we're going to solve for them, what outcomes we're going to help them achieve, and that we can be trusted to be there to help them with it. Right, that's, and that that's through a conversation that we have to be intentional about when we go into it go into it Absolutely.

Meredith Williamson: 25:16

Yeah, I mean and I think so many times too like it's assumed that the client has some basic information, and especially with Google searches or the rise in AI, you would think that clients are coming in more informed, but I think they're sometimes coming in more confused because the information is so much now. And for us to be able to educate them, if nothing else, right, rather than not they use our services at all, but just educate them on why these documents are important, what happens if they don't have these documents in place. But that's again part of sales or education, and those two things are really combined. Right, but being able to convey that to somebody in a way that they understand it.

James Campbell: 25:55

Right, in a way that that makes sense and not in a way that is just me giving all this information to you and overwhelming you with the process their own personal outcomes, and so if we could help dive into those things and we stay away from like the ethereal general population stats and figures right, we get down to more personal yeah, it's too much for people. I think that's why the estate planning attorney is never going to go by the wayside, even with the introduction of AI. I feel like it is a personal connection and there is a lot of information and there is a need for somebody to have that JD that you can trust, right. So, wrapping up here, a little bit Meredith for attorneys that might be skeptical about investing in digital marketing, investing into sales training or any of those things that are moving the practice forward, or hiring IMS, what would you say to them?

Meredith Williamson: 26:52

Yeah, I would say like you again, like you don't need to do this all on your own and leveraging people who have been there before, or experts, people that can help you, if you're open to the help, right, I think will help you meet your milestones quicker. It has me like one of my big milestones Um, I will most likely be reaching two years before I thought I would reach it, and I think that is in large um you know to, to working with you guys. So, um, I do think investing back into yourself and into your business is a key way to grow it. While it could be scary, right To spend any type of money, um, putting that investment in. It's kind of like with anything in life too, Like if you put investment into something, often you put more effort in with that investment, and so it's just a way that that you can can really help yourself while you're growing your business.

James Campbell: 27:52

Yeah, I would I would do it.

Meredith Williamson: 27:53

I did it.

James Campbell: 27:54

Yeah, do it. That's a great, that's a great way to it's a great way to wrap that question up is to just move forward and take take a chance on yourself. Invest into yourself, because you are your greatest asset that you have.

Meredith Williamson: 28:07

Absolutely yeah, and you don't have to do everything on your own Right.

James Campbell: 28:11

Exactly, Meredith. Thank you so much for your time today. Where can people find you online?

Meredith Williamson: 28:18

Yeah, I'm at nwestatelawcom, so Northwest Estate Law in Oregon and again Washington. So even just Googling you know those two. Either one of those and I'm happy to be a resource for people I would say call right and schedule an appointment with me rather than email me is going to be the best way to reach me. But I'm happy to give back to this community that I feel like has given me so much as well. So if anybody does have questions, I'm happy to answer.

James Campbell: 28:48

Guys, and if you have the heart for clients, take advantage of that. At least re-watch this podcast episode and take to heart the things that Meredith says about that personal connection with clients, about establishing your brand and your presence in the community and being involved and not an isolationist. About being able to serve clients on a deep, personal level and how that can grow your firm. Meredith, thank you for the inspiration and for the insight. I really appreciate it.

Announcer: 29:23

And we hope that everybody else tunes in next time to the Marketing Lawcast. If you're ready to skyrocket your firm's marketing, don't hesitate to book a free strategy call with our team right on our website. Here's to your success.